Ep.58 Design: A solution to every challenge | Dr Laura Glory

Dr. Laura Glory [EP. 58]

[00:00:00] Dr. Laura Glory: There's nothing noble in being superior to a fellow man. True nobility is being superior to a former self.

[00:00:07] [Afrika Design Ident]: [Afrika Design Ident]

[00:00:09] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Dr. Laura, thank you so much for joining me. And the first question we like to ask our guests is actually about your name. And I'd love to find out more. You also gave me a couple of names when we met. So what is the meaning or reason behind your names?

[00:00:27] Dr. Laura Glory: So thank you so much. I happen to have three names. My name is Laura and Glory, my home name, but in my official like passport and school and work is Laura. So yeah, Dr. Laura. And it's great to be here. Pleasure meeting you in this way. And in my social media accounts, I use the name Eagle because I love, love the bird Eagle.

[00:00:49] We know it's the bird which has, like, the powerful vision in the world of birds. So it has vision and it has focus. And then it also dominates. It's like the great dominator in the air and i'm an air person. I'm the eagle. So i chose this name and also the eagle is also really loyal to its family. And also a way that an eagle trains an eaglet to fly. It's really like very mind blowing for me.

[00:01:19] And I just love everything about the eagle. And so most of my social media, I use eagle Facebook, Instagram, and yeah, my other names are Glory for utukufu in Swahili. And Laura, I'm not really sure to be honest. I haven't checked it out, but I know mostly for the Eagle.

[00:01:36] It's great to be here.

[00:01:37] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Oh, thank you. Did being a doctor come before or after being an eagle?

[00:01:45] Dr. Laura Glory: That being a doctor came after, after being an Eagle. So yeah, when I became an Eagle, a lot of things popped up.

[00:01:55] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): So is that trying to create things by giving the self descriptor you're also trying to make things happen in that direction?

[00:02:04] Dr. Laura Glory: I think being a doctor, it was with me also, like, since I was young, I really was really passionate to be a doctor and I was inspired, I would say, by when we were young, like, in those age of studying, the teens when you start to really kind of like think of what you want to become.

[00:02:22] You will start reading about these books by Dr. Ben Carlson, who was the neurosurgeon, the first neurosurgeon who separated the conjoined head twins. And so I think most of us in choosing this path of a doctor. Like as, for example, myself, I was really inspired by this person and to see how it's possible.

[00:02:41] And also, in my family, my father is a doctor. He's a doctor, but I don't want to say I am a doctor because of maybe seeing his path. I just wanted to say in a way, like I chose it like this part. I have these examples of inspiration, but like I chose it and we are all results of what we have chosen.

[00:03:01] Right?

[00:03:02] So I chose it and I love it and I am grateful to become one.

[00:03:06] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): How has that work as a doctor then formed your way of thinking and the way that you approach life?

[00:03:14] Dr. Laura Glory: Oh, so that's a nice question because most of the people say like being a doctor is kind of like a what? A calling? Most of the people say it's a calling. And I think it's really something that I will quote Robin Williams said it beautifully. Like being a doctor, it's such a privileged thing in terms of like, you get to connect to people in more personal level, you know, touching somebody's tummy, touching somebody.

[00:03:40] I don't know, like it's something that you get to connect in way personal, like, way personal level. And I like what a very good friend of mine defined, like the term care, that care is not just treatment. Care is an extension of love remembering to have faith, remembering to have dignity. Like it's not just treatment, it's not just prescribing drugs.

[00:04:01] And in this, all of these terms that I'm trying to define to you, as a person, I really flow with the mandate of kindness. I'm a great believer and I do my best in practicing kindness and like putting this term kindness in a more deeper level of like someone's life and stuff like this kind of like fit in my profession as a doctor.

[00:04:23] And also as an individual, like treating each other with kindness and remembering that love of faith or dignity it was a perfect one for me, I would say.

[00:04:33] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): How does a doctor then find themselves contacting a design podcast?

[00:04:39] Dr. Laura Glory: This is fun. I'm a great believer that the world of design, it comes from a very sacred place, comes from a very sacred world. Design is honestly what makes life, even the art of, for example, surgery itself. You have to arrange your scalpels, your scissors in a certain design which it's easy and maybe convenient, and that's what design is, that's why I'm saying like it's not like in terms of it being nice or beautiful.

[00:05:11] It's just what makes life going on, and it's what makes life not to be boring. So even in my world of doctorhood, I am a great practitioner of that, whether it being way I wear, the way I do stuffs and just everything I think is design. And as I said, I think it comes from a very sacred world of the daring, you know.

[00:05:33] That's how I connect these two.

[00:05:35] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): That's really good to hear. I'm very much the same. I see design everywhere and that's perhaps again, when we have a particular profession or passion, that's how we see the world and I often run a prototyping workshop and I mentioned to people. You know, how you create recipes is prototyping, you're designing something, how you go to take a different route to somewhere this time around, you might take a different bus because there's less traffic.

[00:06:06] That's also design. And it's good to hear. Doctors as well seeing that even the way you arrange your implements is actually impactful because you may need access to one of them more than the other one, right? And it's actually a practicality to it. And then there's, of course, the empathy that doctors have in bounds with humans, which is really key to design as well.

[00:06:34] How did then that passion for you overlap? When did you discover design as a practice and when did you start incorporating it into yours?

[00:06:44] Dr. Laura Glory: I think for me it was more of a continuous involvement, I like what Michelle Obama in her book, we come and say, like, we are continually evolving. So for me, even in this path, I'm saying I'm continually evolving because discovering some path that kind of like intertwined or like that work here and there and finding similarities.

[00:07:05] As I said before, the world of design is not a must that for something to look nice but it's supposed to make you feel something. That's what design is. And in terms of what you said about doctors with empathy it makes you feel something and as much as maybe we can try to ignore the fact of maybe life or like how there are doctors being able to maybe certify death but these are things that really resonates in our own life.

[00:07:31] Putting ourself in someone else's shoes and not just feeling the empathy and maybe not doing something but feeling the empathy and still choosing to treat or still choosing to cut open somebody and not just in in the world of doctorhood. I put design in in words, too I'm a writer. I write stuff and I write speeches and I give speeches and I was in a certain events and this person I really like the way she said it to me, she said like word artist, she defined me as a word artist and I really loved it because imagine like there's design even in words and like word artist and it meant a lot for me. And it made me grow in so many ways and it's really broad, it's really broad.

[00:08:15] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): So you mentioned your writing, what drives that? And what's the incentive for you to craft those words and what are the messages that you're trying to get across?

[00:08:26] Dr. Laura Glory: So, what drives me... first off, I am a very good collector of quotations. They are there in the internet, not really like that, but like, I can go to a movie and see something and I will notice and maybe nobody else will feel something about the words.

[00:08:42] And I think it comes with like the passion for words and I find myself like something can hit me and I immediately write it in my phone. And it started before I started writing. I just used to collect a lot of these things like, Whoa, that's really powerful. I note it down. I keep a journal.

[00:09:00] And throughout the years, I've been writing a lot and not just writing them, but I do my best to practice what seems to be true and what it seems to be meaningful.

[00:09:10] I think that's really powerful or something. So from there, I think it was 2021, Adrian. I think the COVID season really changed people in many, many ways, some in negative, some in positive, but I'm so grateful. I grow in the terms of writing. I became a word artist and I loved it.

[00:09:28] I started collecting all these ideas that I have. I started thinking about like women, children, fathers, men, environment, and it all started like that. I like, I collected all my lines or sentences that I have in this journal, for example, for women itself, and then I put them together and I arranged them in terms of speech and I found, you know, platforms where I can share these ideas because I think we become more valuable or we become more meaningful when we share what we believe is true. And it's not a must that maybe we have mastered those things, but like, as long as we share it, we even remind ourself. It was a certain mom of mine who said-- a good speech, it's not the one that you, you know, it's powerful to people, but it's the one that speaks to yourself too. So what I usually share really speaks to myself so very much.

[00:10:19] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): And then you find it speaks to other people as well through saying what you want...

[00:10:23] Dr. Laura Glory: yeah. And the feedbacks and in the speech is not really a must of maybe even some quotation, you know, from famous writers, but even the experience you find even by sharing even experience, people go like, wow, I thought maybe I was alone in this or something like that.

[00:10:37] Yeah, that's honestly what I discovered about the daring because then again, it's like designers, the way we introduce. It takes some sort of daring to draw what you have inside and putting it out there to the world.

[00:10:50] It's a bit of a daring, but the path is really worth it.

[00:10:53] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): How has some of that feedback impacted your creating and your writing? What people have told you? Has something maybe stuck in your mind that someone's told you in reaction to one of your speeches perhaps that maybe you've incorporated into your thinking? Maybe even you quote them now.

[00:11:11] Dr. Laura Glory: Like from the Africa child's day, I said something like a child's future is not a matter of luck. And people started quoting that, like last year I was in Burundi and one of the friends I have in Burundi, he listened to this speech I gave here in Arusha and he quoted it in his organization for like helping young children and put a picture of a small kid with my quotation there.

[00:11:35] I couldn't believe my eyes, but also that really meant a lot to me. I think one of the most encouraging like apart from a random person giving you a certain review but like real feedback from close friends really matter a lot. I remember one of my friend who told me like you are a great speaker. I can see you giving these speeches into like international things.

[00:11:56] Those reviews, I favorite them. I keep them and I read them in my own time. It really, really means a lot. Also the feedbacks that I got was like, how do you manage to write stuff like this? And like, you're still a doctor. How do you manage to do that?

[00:12:11] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Maybe you can tell us actually then, how do you manage it?

[00:12:15] Dr. Laura Glory: You know, the saying, like, either you find a job that you like, or you bring more love into your job. I'd love to share something that I believe is true and has a message there of even how I'm able to do it as a doctor and as a writer.

[00:12:30] I'm coming from a place of like, I don't want to limit myself in one title or function. And realizing also every good thing, you know, you have to put in the work. And I don't know if you will use the word sacrifice, but maybe it's not sacrifice, just doing what you love and it takes a bit of cost doing whatsoever you love.

[00:12:51] So I have days that I stay awake maybe for the whole night to write my thing. Or I go months and months writing, preparing maybe something that I was going to a stage and just share it for five days, but I have maybe three months of preparing it in bits and bits to just share it somewhere in five minutes.

[00:13:08] And I think that's just how I do it. And to be honest, above all, it's just that I love it. I really do. And so for me, I wouldn't say it costs me anything. It doesn't cost me anything. I really love what I do.

[00:13:22] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Good. It's really important from my perspective that design as a form of problem solving is communicated to more professions so that people can implement it and utilize that type of thinking themselves. And especially with doctors. Doctors are often faced with unpredictable challenges, challenges of resources or how to make something work and how to practically figure out some issues they have. So, is there any way that you're able to share some of that thinking with your fellow professionals and how have they taken some of your viewpoints?

[00:14:01] Dr. Laura Glory: So, I do have some of the few health professionals who really also acknowledge what I do at the hospital in the mornings, early in the morning, like 7. 30. We usually have doctors meetings and in some occasions of like, as I said, maybe Father's Day or World Environment Day or Mother's Day.

[00:14:19] I try to ask for their five minutes to just share what I have, what I've prepared maybe for mothers or... sometimes we have doctors who just maybe they are there for a short while and then they go and study and I try to prepare a speech, a farewell speech for them and they all really love it.

[00:14:38] They all really love it. But then again like with sharing with them, the time is usually very, very limited because you know busy. You really see a great transformation in the eyes when you share these things. And I think that's what design is.

[00:14:50] It's meant to make life not boring. And when you share your design in a way of words, you see light in someone's eyes, like that you have lightened a certain bulb in their minds or eyes.

[00:15:05] And it's beautiful to see it that way. The writing that I do, they also have some message of like, maybe remembering to have love, remembering to have faith. Remembering not that we are doing like going aggressively into somebody's body. It kinda like slows ourselves down to remember like, why are we doing this?

[00:15:23] And to be able to share that in terms of words, It brings a lot of contribution, positive contributions.

[00:15:29] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): And something that hit me before, you know, when people walk into a hospital, there's often a reason they're there, either they or someone they love is sick and we tried you know, hospitals often give this air to people of not being very welcoming, right? And we've also seen how designers have tried maybe in children's wards where things are painted, right?

[00:15:56] And where design and medicine have tried to overlap, even in a hospital setting to try and make that environment better for people. I'm sure that's something that you also have an appreciation of. Is that something that you're at all able to implement within your profession to make people's experiences more pleasant?

[00:16:16] Dr. Laura Glory: Yeah, thank you for that kind reminder, and yes, Adrian... apart from being a doctor or writing, I also draw cartoons and in my hospital again, trying to bring this world of beauty and feeling something. I stick them into the walls in the neonatal ICU, pediatric wards, and those are the major two places I've started working on.

[00:16:42] In my previous hospital, where it was High Dome Lutheran Hospital. I put some of my drawings in neonatal ICU and in a maternity ward to the moms and in my current hospital, which was Manyara referral regional hospital, I put my drawings in again neonatal ICU and pediatrics ward.

[00:16:58] And with those cartoons, I don't just draw them, I write words. Sometimes it's a scripture that I know it can encourage inspiration, or patience or some feedback or a funny thing but yeah, I usually share them in my Facebook and Instagram. I usually do this and I have really great feedbacks and even different nurses from other awards, they go like, Dr. Laura, why don't you draw for us too?

[00:17:23] I try my best to make time to draw this and recently I'm learning about painting. Maybe it will take me into another levels of maybe coming from drawing cartoons and maybe painting, but in any kind of drawing that I do, I have to put an encouraging word and I believe it.

[00:17:38] Like even though maybe those little kids neonate, they can't read anything already, but their parents can read and their parents, like, I put reminders of like, ' mama, msemee mwanawe maneno mazuri'. Mother say to your baby good words. Like those kind of reminders to these mothers who like maybe they're worried that maybe the child won't come through or something.

[00:18:00] Just those kind of kind reminders.

[00:18:02] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Have you had feedback on those from people in the wards?

[00:18:06] Dr. Laura Glory: So most of the time, it's usually the mothers of these kids, you know, they usually don't believe that I'm the one who draw, but I think in their own way, they really acknowledge the words, but most of the feedback I do get from the nurses. They go like, please write more or draw more.

[00:18:27] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Oh, brilliant.

[00:18:28] Dr. Laura Glory: So I think design is everywhere. Adrian, like when you think of it just the way you said it, everywhere. Even in our hospitals, it's design, art, creativity is really... it's really nice.

[00:18:40] It's what makes the world to keep on going, and it's everywhere. We have to acknowledge it more.

[00:18:46] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Yeah, people who listen may have heard me say stuff like this before or people who hang out with me, but it's really the way I see it as design is everywhere that's human made, right? Everything human made is humans responding and creating their own additions to their environments.

[00:19:05] And really, design is the practice of turning less desirable situations into more desirable situations, right? If my back needs... a rest, then I will put a cushion underneath it. And that is using design and medicine to create a more desirable situation. So I definitely see it that way. And that's what's important for practitioners of their own fields to realize that they can actually benefit to further their own practice by utilizing design, whether it's that physical aesthetic aspect or whether it's the thinking behind it and the empathy. Yeah. So, you said you'd prepared something. Would you like to share it?

[00:19:49] Dr. Laura Glory: Yes, please.

[00:19:51] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): that'd be nice.

[00:19:52] Dr. Laura Glory: So goes by the title being, b e i n g. Living, being alive is something which we can't fake. I ask myself, should it be a question of what do we do for a living, or what do we do to live? Maya Angelou said, surviving is important, but thriving is elegant. The universal human desire is to be known, to be heard, to have one's unique identity recognized and seen worthy.

[00:20:20] So, how do we thrive then? I like what Stephen Covey wrote, that for me to win, it doesn't mean someone else has to lose. That we shouldn't live life like a see saw, for somebody to be high, somebody else has to be down. He says that we can both have a win win. It is really wonderful to be known as this doctor or writer who made it.

[00:20:42] That's really wonderful. But what really beats is that we are truly defined on how we see ourselves, on how we treat ourselves and how we treat other people. Once we learn how to put up with ourselves, we really learn how to put up with all others. That's why we can only love to the capacity that we are only able to love ourselves.

[00:21:04] And that there's nothing noble in being superior to a fellow man. True nobility is being superior to a former self. I find this very nourishing in treating another fellow human being as a whole human being. It's the art of having respect to the dignity of the other person. Their process of becoming, their process of growing.

[00:21:24] We must consider how to maximize the quality of our communication, how to retain the rhetorical rhythms, lyrical linguistics that penetrates our hearts and minds, and not just our ears and eyes. I pray to be able to make a point without making an enemy. I don't have to agree with you to love you. It was Chadwick Boseman who said, I think you realize how much you need to have people that you love.

[00:21:49] It's not about them loving you. It's about you needing to love people. Jack Cornfield, Chicken Soup for the Soul, shared by Oprah Winfrey says, the greatest wound we've all experienced is somehow being rejected for being our authentic selves. As a result of that, we then try to be what we are not to get approval.

[00:22:07] Money, love, protection, safety, whatever that is, but the real need for all of us really is to reconnect to the essence of who we really are. We own all the disowned parts of ourselves, whether it's our emotions, our spirituality. We all go around hiding parts of ourselves. He said, he was this Buddhist teacher who asked if you were to meditate for 50 years, maybe where will you find yourself into?

[00:22:34] And he said, like, where you find yourself is just be yourself, but be all of you using the energy of your personality to actually serve the purpose of your soul. And that purpose I'm here to tell you, it's not just one thing. It is the thread that connects the dots of everything that you do. We are at our best when we are authentic to our core, being what you are and not what they call you.

[00:23:00] As we evolve as a person, we cannot allow ourselves to be incarcerated by anything that people will describe us with, because then we limit ourselves what more potential gifts or talents that can be manifested in our lives. We ought to have appreciation of life and refuse to allow anybody to take away the great privilege of being alive.

[00:23:24] I will think for myself. I will move in my own direction. This for me is what that song that says, it feels so good to be alive. This will be is what B E I N G being is. Thank you.

[00:23:40] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Wow. Thank you. That's such a great thing to leave people with thinking about and to re listen to. Thank you so much. And it's been such a great conversation as well. I wonder if you had anything else you wanted to share?

[00:23:57] Any other stories or anecdotes perhaps that you have? Please feel free to share those. And also I wanted to ask you about your plans for future. Where this is going for you and what other speeches you're working on?

[00:24:13] Dr. Laura Glory: Thank you. So one of the things I want to share is that I also have this thing called Tai. Tai is a word in Swahili for Eagle. It's called Tai donation bin, Eagle donation bin. I am making these bins. I will share, they are there in my social media accounts. These are donation bins. I put them in either outside your community, outside your church, outside your hospital. So the first project I did is at my hospital. So just on the entrance of my hospital, I put this eagle donation bin for anybody with whatever they have. Whether it's books, whether it's Kanga, whether it's Soksi for kids.

[00:24:56] Whatsoever that is, which is valuable to be used by another person with your own time to put those valuables in these bins. So I have this wish and vision that this bin can be spread in different regions here in Tanzania. And so, yeah, I just wanted to speak about that a little bit in here, of Eagle Donation Bins.

[00:25:15] It's a sustainable way to contribute. You can have your pack of clothes, like good clothes, you know, that can be used by somebody else. When you have this bin, maybe in a certain community somewhere, it's a convenient way to donate. So yeah, I have something like this and maybe anybody who's interested, you can talk about it, even outside Tanzania, not just here.

[00:25:36] So I do that. And also I want to say something about the world of design. I really acknowledge it. And Adrian, if you don't mind as we are winding up, I also prepared something about design. And I would love to share also.

[00:25:52] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Absolutely.

[00:25:53] Dr. Laura Glory: thank you. And also for my future plans, I want to grow.

[00:25:59] I'm a doctor, I'm a general practitioner. Currently, I haven't specialized yet, but down the line in specialization in my doctorhood path, I'd like to be a obstetrics and gynecology specialist. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to that. And also in growth, as a writer and a speaker, I pray to be international speaker and, just to keep on sharing what I know is valuable in way of putting words into artistic form, creativity and design.

[00:26:29] And also in my world of drawing cartoons. Right now I'm learning painting. So I'm pretty sure I'll grow into that path again, maybe putting cartoons in different ways and sharing it to more hospitals and different places. So yeah, those are my plans currently.

[00:26:48] So Nairobi Design, I'm really grateful for you guys having me here and acknowledge to what Afrika Design, Nairobi Design is doing. I prepared a speech for acknowledgement of what you do.

[00:27:01] In all of the world of creativity and design, like Chimamanda Adichie Ngozi once said, and I quote, paying attention is one amongst beautiful acts of kindness.

[00:27:12] Oh, I'm paying attention and I'm not admiring quietly. I'm here standing like a mountain for the right values. My name is, as I said, Dr. Gloria Laura from Tanzania. I'm a speaker and a medical doctor. Design and creativity world is a gift in which whether you worship God or not, you've been given. We don't take it lightly.

[00:27:33] It involve unique way of imagination. Cause see, for example, it involves seeing, you see the eyes that looks are common, but the eyes that can truly see are rare. Priest once said it clearly. I'm here to tell you, you do get to transform the world every single day by your actions.

[00:27:51] Afrika design, the steps, your curves, your portraits, they all radically transform whatever moment you're in. Bruce Guebard said, design does not wait for the perfect moment. It fashions its own perfect moments out of ordinary ones, and I think every gift requires discipline, especially Father Dr. Apostle said that being honored or respected, it doesn't come by praying or asking for it, it comes by consecration.

[00:28:20] And that honor and respect doesn't start by being given honor or respect, it starts by self honoring and self respect. He said, the blessings in our lives doesn't come by being holy. They come by working on manifesting life principles. Principles like, when you give, you get. Hard work forever pays. I commend All of us, including myself, to make manifest life principles.

[00:28:44] My dear friend, Evie Efesto, who's an artist and an architecture says design is the act of turning new imaginative ideas into reality. Design is characterized by the ability to perceive the world in new ways. To find hidden patterns, to make connections between seemingly unrelated phenomena, to generate solutions.

[00:29:06] Design involves two processes, thinking and producing. If you have ideas but not acting on them, you're imaginative but not creative. Creativity is a combinatory force. Maria Bovora says it's our ability to tap into the inner pool of resources, knowledge, insight, information, inspiration, and all fragments populating in our minds that we have accumulated all over the years, just by being present, alive, and awake to the world and to combine them in extraordinary new ways.

[00:29:39] So don't hold back what it is that you have unique ability to offer. That's the kind of goodness you want to be able to harness and look at any time that you do something that you like, that's when the grace to add yourself, to do more, to design more comes. Will Smith, in the movie Pursuit of Happiness, I'm sure most of us have watched it.

[00:29:59] He says, don't ever let somebody tell you you can't do something, not even yourself. You've have a dream, you've have a piece of art, design, creativity as it loads. That dream, you have to protect it. People can do something themselves. They want to tell you, you can do it. If you want something, go for it. Period.

[00:30:18] Bishop T. G. Jackson says it takes courage to be different. It takes courage to show the world the thing that you have inside your imagination. It was Charlie Champlin who said failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself. He was talking in his joking world, but this resonates even in the design world.

[00:30:35] Once you neutralize your uniqueness, you don't need no courage. We say as doctors or physician, we go by the book but the artist follow their heart and that's beautiful. That's daring. Nothing beats that. And please know that just because a million of people ain't cheering while you're doing it, it doesn't mean it's not important.

[00:30:57] No matter what level of your ability, you have more potential than you can ever develop in a lifetime. And as Antonio de San Juan said, it is in the compelling zest and of high adventure and victory, and of creative design, and creative action that man finds his supreme joys. Thank you.

[00:31:19] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Thank you. Thank you so much. Where can people contact you and find you to hear more of that?

[00:31:27] Dr. Laura Glory: Thank you. So my Facebook name is Eagle starting with a capital E only and then the rest are small letters. Eagle and then hr, and then Instagram is just small letter eagle and then dot hr.

[00:31:45] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Thank you. And yes, I hope to hear so much more from you. Wise words. And thank you for picking out so many things previous people before us have said as well. That's really important for us to learn. So this has been insightful, fun. Everything has been really great. And I hope you can make it TZ's not too far, so I hope you can make it to Nairobi sometime and maybe for Nairobi Design.

[00:32:11] Dr. Laura Glory: Yay, I will, I will for sure.

[00:32:13] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): And maybe we'll make it to Arusha as well at some stage.

[00:32:16] Dr. Laura Glory: Yeah, please, please, please. I'll be over the moon to have you guys here. You'll be welcome. Thank you

[00:32:23] Adrian Jankowiak (Host): Thank you.